?

Log in

think_anakin

Playing Devil's Advocate

« previous entry | next entry »
Jul. 22nd, 2005 | 12:20 am
mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
posted by: rabidfangurl in think_anakin

So, it's a fanon assumption that Anakin would have done better if Qui-Gon had lived and been his Master. Now, I've been reading Labrynith of Evil, and I think I must disagree with this assumption. From what Obi-Wan says about Qui-Gon, it seems to me that while Qui-Gon and Anakin would be well-matched in personality, this wouldn't have necessarily made Anakin a better Jedi.

I suppose it comes down to whether Anakin was inherently reckless, or became more that way in reaction to Obi-Wan. If he was inherently reckless, than pairing him with Qui-Gon would have been a disaster. Two rebels together would just cause more trouble. Anakin wouldn't have had restraint, he would have had encouragement. Obi-Wan mentions that Qui-Gon had no patience for traps and bait. Anakin plain out has no patience. I doubt Qui-Gon would have made Anakin have more patience, where Obi-Wan instilled some measure of patience into his Padawan.

So, what do we think? Would Qui-Gon been a better Master, or were Obi-Wan and Anakin's conflicting natures actually better for them, because they had to learn new things from each other?

Link | Leave a comment | Share

Comments {13}

Sephira jo

(no subject)

from: sephirajo
date: Jul. 22nd, 2005 05:15 am (UTC)
Link

I think I agree with you on most parts... except Qui-gon did have more experince at teaching. Something Obi-wan lacks.

Reply | Thread

High Priestess of Anakin pr0n

(no subject)

from: acaciah
date: Jul. 22nd, 2005 11:57 am (UTC)
Link

I believe Qui-Gon would have done a better job due to the fact that he had more rank and experience. I think Obi-Wan is disconcerted by Anakin's nightmares in AotC, but he doesn't feel that there's anything he can do about them, thus the homily "dreams pass in time."

I think Shmi's death is a major crack in Anakin's armor, and a good hold for Palpatine after Anakin confesses the Tusken slaughter to him. I also think Qui-Gon would have allowed Anakin to go check on her, possibly allowing him to install security on the Lars farm/rescuing her before the brink of death, which certainly would have been better for Anakin's mental health. I think Obi-Wan is not comfortable defying the Council, and Qui-Gon certainly was.

"Why did you take your Padawan to Tatooine, Qui-Gon?"

"Exercise, of course. Sand dunes are marvelous for the calves."

Or whatever, the point being Qui-Gon had the brass to act in Anakin's best interests, and that is the gift of both temperament and experience.

Reply | Thread

Neotoma

(no subject)

from: neotoma
date: Jul. 22nd, 2005 01:57 pm (UTC)
Link

In some ways, Qui-Gon would have been better for Anakin, but not all. He did have more experience that Obi-Wan, who was thrust much too young into a parental role, and Qui-Gon had successfully trained as least one student. Also, he wouldn't have had the confusion that Obi-Wan had with Anakin, over whether their relationship was father/son or brother/brother; Qui-Gon would have assumed a fatherly role with no trouble and no hesitation.

On the other hand, Qui-Gon could be as arrogant and high-handed as any other Jedi, and likely would reinforced Anakin's willingness to go his own way. Anakin might have become ungovernable under Qui-Gon, instead of just impulsive and thoughtless. They might have reinforced each other's worst traits, and slid everything into darkness sooner.

Reply | Thread

lazypadawan

(no subject)

from: lazypadawan
date: Jul. 22nd, 2005 02:42 pm (UTC)
Link

Weeeeell, I agree Qui-Gon and Anakin were better matched in terms of personality and Qui-Gon simply had more experience. As good as Obi-Wan was, he was still a newly-minted Jedi when he had Anakin dumped on his lap (Jedi Council Mistake #654: give the Chosen One to a newbie instead of to someone with far more experience) and he was a young man. He was just starting to learn about the Force and about life in general.

But I disagree that Qui-Gon would have just let Anakin run loose. Qui-Gon was not a permissive master; he still kept Obi-Wan in line (see TPM). And while I think Qui-Gon would have handled Anakin's troubled dreams better than Obi-Wan or Yoda, I don't think he would have, for instance, let Anakin go off with Padmé. Qui-Gon was aware of who Anakin was and making sure Anakin sticks with his responsibility would have been Qui-Gon's top priority. If the Force revealed to him that Anakin was meant to be with Padmé, then that would be a different story. Otherwise, I view Qui-Gon not as a reckless rulebreaker, but a mystic whose ultimate loyalty is to the Living Force itself.

Reply | Thread

hlglne

(no subject)

from: hlglne
date: Jul. 22nd, 2005 07:51 pm (UTC)
Link

Qui-Gon was not that good a teacher. In many ways he stunted Obi-Wan emotionally, which he managed to bequeathe to Anakin.
I refer you to the philosophical discussion at

http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=sw_quiforce

which I believe is based on the Jedi Apprentice series by Jude Watson.

Certainly he had an unmatched connection to the Living Force, and he makes a groovy ghost-Qui. But as a teacher? naaah-- remember Xanatos, people. Obi survived him, as much as he learned from him.

Reply | Parent | Thread

lazypadawan

(no subject)

from: lazypadawan
date: Jul. 23rd, 2005 01:26 am (UTC)
Link

I was going by movie Qui-Gon, not angsty Jude Watson's Qui-Gon ;).

Reply | Parent | Thread

hlglne

(no subject)

from: hlglne
date: Jul. 23rd, 2005 02:10 am (UTC)
Link

true, there's a difference between them, though in the thread I cited they don't differentiate. Movie Qui-Gon is much more approachable.

Reply | Parent | Thread

Neotoma

(no subject)

from: neotoma
date: Jul. 23rd, 2005 04:32 pm (UTC)
Link

But would Anakin have been able to tell the difference between Qui-Gon's obdience to the Force instead of the Council, and general contraryness? I doubt it, as Anakin has a lot willfulness and a tendency for racing into things headlong even as a 9-year-old

Reply | Parent | Thread

lazypadawan

(no subject)

from: lazypadawan
date: Jul. 24th, 2005 01:17 am (UTC)
Link

Anakin's recklessness and willfullness were always there; they're Skywalker traits. But I think Qui-Gon could have taught Anakin that difference. Maybe Qui-Gon would need to beat it into him a few times over, but it's possible.

Reply | Parent | Thread

Leia Amidala Skywalker

(no subject)

from: vadersangel
date: Jul. 26th, 2005 02:23 am (UTC)
Link

i don't necessarily think Qui-gon would have done a better job - but i do think that if Qui-Gon had lived it would have helped Anakin. see, Qui-Gon is the one that took Anakin away from him mum, Qui-Gon who she entrusted him to. Anakin barely had a relationship with Obiwan at all when he took over his care. he only knows him as Qui-Gon's apprentice. i can imagine that their shared grief at Qui-Gon's loss is what first brings them together. anyway, had Qui-Gon not died Anakin wouldn't have lost his first father figure and had to go looking for another - a search that tragically ends up with Palpatine in the role. as much as Anakin says Obiwan is the closest thing he has to a father i think Obiwan's got it right when he calls him brother. there's also the idea that Obiwan is the disapprovingfather and Palpatine sets himself up as the approvingfather. my point is the loss of Qui-Gon was traumatic to Anakin, it's another in the pattern...and i don't think it's an accident that we hear Qui-Gon speak when Anakin kills the Sand People.

Reply | Thread

ladylavinia

(no subject)

from: ladylavinia
date: Oct. 14th, 2005 05:27 pm (UTC)
Link

Anakin and Obi-Wan's conflicting natures would have served better if they had simply been friends. But I think that Obi-Wan was the WRONG teacher for Anakin. Why? He seemed more concerned with trying to make Anakin the IDEAL Jedi Knight. Qui-Gon could have helped Anakin be a Jedi Knight - in his OWN STYLE OR MANNER - instead of forcing some kind of ideal straight jacket upon the former.

Reply | Thread

ladylavinia

(no subject)

from: ladylavinia
date: Aug. 9th, 2006 10:51 pm (UTC)
Link

I think that you're making an assumption. No one really knows whether Anakin would have joined the Sith if Qui-Gon had been his teacher.

However, I do find it odd that Lucas would name the Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul as "The Duel of Fates". Now, why would he give it that name?

Reply | Thread

(no subject)

from: anonymous
date: Apr. 27th, 2010 08:19 pm (UTC)
Link

Well, it would have obviously been DIFFERENT. I don't know if Qui-Gon would have been better. I think maybe yes. I don't know all the EU stories, but Qui-Gon almost turned (the key word almost) when his belowed died - so he might have understood Anakin better. He knew better than Obi-wan where Anakin came from. I agree that maybe a part of Obi-wan's problem was that he wanted Anakin to be the perfect Jedi.

I think there's a better chance that Anakin would have told Qui-gon about the Tuskens or about Padmé. Anakin and Obi-wan were friends, but Anakin still kept secrets from him. I don't know if Qui-gon's experience with Xanatos would have helped him to prevent Anakin's fall, to see it earlier. Maybe Qui-gon's love for all the "pathetic live forms" would have only enforced Anakin's urges to "save them all". On the other hand, maybe he would be better in dealing with Anakin's later arrogance. I don't believe Anakin would be more reckless under Jinn, he might even listen to him more, because of their similarities. Would Qui-gon have let Anakin come for his mother sooner? Anakin once was a very compassionate, although stubborn and rackless boy. Why did the first trait mostly disappear (before he became Vader)?

I think there is a lot of things to be considered. However, I still believe the most important is this:

"Master Qui-gon, I have to tell you something. I broke the Code and ... I need your help. I'm married to Padmé... and now she's going to die!"

Would he have told him? If he did, it would have led to another discoveries about Anakin's tapping in the dark side and maybe even to discovery of Palpatine's treachery. And I think Qui-gon would have managed to prevent Anakin from turning then (well, I think anything would have been better than Yoda's "letting go of attachements, train yourself in" or whatever exactly his "brilliant advice" was.) Still, Sidius's influence was very strong, and the war didn't help the matters either. But maybe, if Qui-gon didn'!t die, Palpatien would have never became so influential in Anakin's live...

We will never know :(

Reply | Thread